A conversation with Yvonne Lonis

“Systemic work is a craft. It is not something magical where someone floats around in a blue dress. I am very down to earth about that. When I was introduced to systemic work about 16 years ago, I was struck by its simplicity. It is very clear and unambiguous. What appealed to me is that it goes a layer deeper, that we really go to a place where it matters and is perhaps the source of everything.

That search is ultimately what working with people is about. Often people have been struggling with an issue for a long time. And then a systemic intervention can suddenly drop that penny or give that insight. That’s what attracts me to this work: going straight to the source, quickly and effectively. That is very powerful – within organizations but also for personal issues.

The first constellation I experienced was part of a training course in Enneagram and integration coaching with Willem-Jan van de Wetering. I was working as a trainer and coach, previously for a Justice training institute and now self-employed. I was constantly in training somewhere, because I simply never finish learning. I always find learning super fun to do.

In that training I discovered systemic work. I immediately thought: how hugely interesting, this will be next. That’s how I was kind of into it: ‘the next thing’. Each time, a new tool appeared that was a bit at the front of my Rolodex, so to speak, that I applied and that I also thought was the most fun and the best at that moment. So I thought: well, this will be the next one to put at the front. Only this one stayed ahead.

Systemic work requires a certain trust, a surrender perhaps even, but I’ve never actually had a problem with that. I am not hampered by a scientific background that demands explanations, for example. If I see that something works – or as I would put it now: if I see that something resonates – then it is good.

In my trainings, I am very practical. A teacher, participants regularly call me. And it is true, I am a teacher by birth, I am trained as a trainer. So a methodical approach to training: yes, that’s what I do. And I find it very important to keep everyone in the group with both feet on the ground, I am averse to the woolly side. Then the teacher in me turns on even more and I want to prove even more that this work is not a gift but a craft.

As a supervisor, I find that I am very curious. And can endure. So if someone next to me is having a really hard time, I can just very well sit next to them without wanting to help. Even then I like to be clear and practical. If possible, I lighten the situation with some humor so that everyone’s feet are back on earth. This is not to get rid of the tension, but more as a valve to give the situation some air and then integrate recognition and possible intervention. In the here and now.

Personally, I have also undergone tremendous development through systemic understanding. In my background was a victim/perpetrator dynamic that I experienced in my childhood. My mother was very strongly connected to victimhood and I had a big judgment on that. I was actually much more connected to perpetration. I was much more resolute and had an allergy and judgement on everything that was not decisive.

Systemic work has given me completely new insights into this. My mother’s connection with victimhood turned out to be because of her war past. My connection with perpetrators turned out to be an unconscious connection with my grandfather and his war past.

In retrospect, the fact that I started working in the prison system after my education certainly has to do with my background. I was actually very good at dealing with offenders. I worked in TBS as a therapist and in prison as an institution worker. And that jacket suited me. Which of course is actually weird, that such a jacket fits you. I came to understand that later, thanks to systemic work.

Now I know that somehow, because of my background, I was connected to that perpetration. When I realized that this had always played a role in the dynamic with my mother, the pennies fell. This relaxed something in my body and I was able to integrate both sides of criminality and victimhood much more. I don’t have to side with one side to defend something there, it’s both there.

That theme of polarities often comes up in constellations and has many different faces. People are either on one side or the other, or move like a pendulum between the two. This often causes a lot of turmoil in the body.

What I like most about this work is that it shows that people have the ability to really connect with each other. For example, when I have done a two-day family constellation workshop and we sit together for the last 15 minutes of those two days, everyone is so connected to each other. People who didn’t know each other a day before have gone through a beautiful journey together. You feel the space and compassion and humanity: beautiful.

That connection is inter-connected and intra-connected. By interconnected, I mean the connection we can have with each other thanks to our ability to get connected to each other and even to each other’s nervous system. Then there is an exchange, not just in words but on many more levels.

Intraconnected is a word coined by Daniel Siegel. This is the ability to make that connection not only between people but also to the larger system we are members of: nature. The earth around us. And that connection, we are so losing it. This morning I read an article in the newspaper about deforestation and then I think: we are going to hell – then my Amsterdam roots resurface.

For me, that intra-connection is my new quest in systemic work. I read a lot about it and I am going to take a course with Daniel Siegel next year. We are also going to Africa with the team. I hope to pick up the connection with the earth as source there, in addition to other insights. And if we can pick it up, we can spread it again.

That’s what this work requires: a constantly learning open attitude. Systemic work is a young adult barely 30 years old. We are still developing and learning, and I also think that as an institute we have to do that together: we must constantly keep an open mind, look around us and keep growing. We are also working hard on that.

That continuous learning suits me. And comes again from my whole background. I come from humble beginnings, as it is so nicely called in English. Three floors down in Amsterdam, in the Kinkerbuurt neighbourhood, that’s where I was born. In our house it was: if you are born on a dime, you will never be a quarter. I was the first to study at all and that was a bit weird. It’s probably why I’m still studying.

I think that’s the beauty of systemic work, you find out about dynamics like that and then you have a choice. You can continue with it or you can choose something else. And I chose to continue with it because I love it so much and it feeds me so much in all sorts of ways. But now I do it for myself and no longer for my background.”