A conversation with Barbara Hoogenboom

“I experienced my first constellation around 2005. At that time, I was a mediator. I was doing a lot of divorce and labour mediation and I thought: constellations might be interesting in my work. So I went to a workshop, on a Sunday afternoon somewhere in the middle of the country. It was a workshop with about 20 people, almost all of whom also knew each other. That setup took flight… We ended up in the Middle Ages, with knights, in front of gates… It really wasn’t for me. I didn’t trust it one bit and left it at that.

Years later, in 2012, that changed. I was looking for a course that could strengthen me as a mediator and I came across the website of the Bert Hellinger Institute. The course System Dynamics in Organizations jumped out for me. By now I was doing mostly business mediation and wanted to understand: when people are in conflict, what are they in? What does it all involve?

In the cover letter, I had to give information about any constellation experiences. I wrote about my adventure in Mediation and was suggested to attend a workshop before starting a whole course, to discover whether systemic work was for me. I did, with someone in Amsterdam, and that experience was completely different. There in a constellation I suddenly started crying, as a representative. Tears ran down my cheeks. And I knew: this is not mine. It is part of the role I represent in this constellation, it is not rigged.

The training led by Jan Jacob Stam subsequently brought me a lot. Already after the first two days I thought: if only I had known this 10 years earlier. I noticed very quickly that I was doing things differently in my work, that I moved a chair for someone who wasn’t there, for example. I could see people in a larger context, which in this case was just the business context. Later, the family piece was added, but this was enough at that point.

Only after six months at home could I explain what I was actually doing, in my training with Jan Jacob Stam. I did it, I understood it, but I just couldn’t put it into words before. And actually I still have that sometimes, that I just can’t explain what is happening, but feel everything about it. The trust that it is good makes me accept it without wanting to explain it.

I have also always had the confidence that I am enough as a counsellor. That what I do will be enough. I had that right after training. I didn’t feel the need to first attend hundreds of constellations before I dared to accompany a constellation myself, I’m not like that.

If a large organization comes to me with an important issue, I can sometimes feel overwhelmed. But then I tell myself: that question, that person, that company, that situation – it comes to you for a reason. So it will be right and it will be enough. That surrender suits me and helps me.

What I often hear back is that I am transparent. I am clear and pure in what I do. I am very aware of who is sitting next to me and what their position is in a system, whether it is a family system or an organizational system. That helps me sense what is or is not appropriate in the moment. In everything I do, I take into account that after the constellation or coaching, the person does not have more judgements on others in their system than they had before.

I actually always look apologetic in my basic attitude. Systems are also not about right or wrong, or guilt or innocence, they are about that things happened a certain way, after which other things were no longer possible. And after which a survival mechanism is often triggered.

So suppose someone comes in with an issue and says: I had a bad childhood because of my father, my curiosity is immediately triggered. How is it that this father could not be the father the son hoped he was? Did this father himself have a loving and available father? I invariably assume that there must be good reasons that someone could not be the father for his child.

The same applies to an organizational question. If someone comes with a judgment on their manager or their predecessor, for example, it becomes my guide to look: what explains the behavior, what caused it (once), where is the systemic exculpation to be found? Because there is always a good reason.

If I can help someone see differently, if I can help someone understand that everyone is part of a context and made into who they are by a set of events – and that this applies to yourself but also to others – then a different type of connection really is possible. Contributing to understanding, that is ultimately my motivation. Not only with your head, but also with your body, by understanding and feeling how things are.

I can empathize well with another person, which helps me find the right connection, both on a personal level and within organizations. Within organizations, I quite often come across situations where people have never heard of systemic work. Thanks to my own background in business, I know how to bridge the gap between organisations and systemic leaders. I can get the message across without being woolly. If necessary, with a PowerPoint to back it up.

And that message, as far as I am concerned, can actually always be reduced to one word: inclusion. The system wants to be complete. What is it really like? What is underneath? What is the essence? What wants to have a place? What wants to be contained? That question always applies – and it ‘turns me on’ every time.

With systemic leadership, there is another double layer to that. Because that is never just about the organization, it is also about the leader himself. You cannot be a systemic leader without understanding what your place is in your family of origin, for instance, or without understanding what has made you who you are and how that triggers you in your work.

I myself am now a systemic leader, of course, from the Bert Hellinger Institute and the Systemic Business School. Whereas I was introduced to the Bert Hellinger Institute with the intention of gaining additional tools for my work as a mediator, I am now one of the owners of this wonderful institute.

Apparently, this is how it had to happen, when I indicated during my first training with Jan Jacob Stam that I found it so fantastic that I wanted to do more with it. I meant within my work as a mediator, but with Jan Jacob a seed was planted for a possible successor.

During the master’s course I took afterwards, Jan Jacob hinted that I would join the BHI. I didn’t actually take it seriously; he must have said that to participants many times. Until we saw each other again one day at Bert Hellinger himself in southern Germany, where Yvonne Lonis and Siets Bakker were also present.

After the meeting we were sitting together in a German Biergarten and there Jan Jacob suddenly said in front of them: there’s my successor.

It caught me off guard and it was way too big. I couldn’t do that, could I? Originally, I am triangulated. I thrive on place number two. Place number one is fearful. That’s really been a road for me to get there. Yvonne and Siets helped me by asking: ‘But if we are behind you, do you dare?’ And then out of my mouth fluttered: ‘I can be the first, but not the only one.’

Jan Jacob helped me by narrowing down his question: ‘Do you want to be my assistant in training SDO?’ I could say yes to that. And later I could also say yes to asking Jan Jacob to succeed me. In 2018, I officially became director, after a wonderful rite of passage with Jan Jacob in Slovenia. A position, incidentally, that I could only really occupy after Jan Jacob’s departure in 2020.

Now I am still ‘the first’, but no longer the only one! The Bert Hellinger Institute is now an organization of over 20 people that we lead with a partnership of several. Everyone is different, everyone brings their part and I can enjoy that immensely. Now I regularly look around me, for example at the conference Timeless in the We at the beginning of this year, and then it makes me so proud of where we now stand together.’